We have an hour-long conversation with organizers of the June 26th antifascist resistance in Sacramento, CA, that routed the attempted organizing on the Capitol Steps by white nationalist groups, the Traditionalist Workers Party and the Golden State Skinheads (among other groups).

• Transcript
• PDF (Unimposed) – pending
• Zine (Imposed PDF) – pending

The TWP & GSS rally was an attempt to take symbolic space and inspire further and more public demonstrations by these and affiliated groups however the 40 members who showed up were quickly routed by the diverse antifa numbering 400 or so. In the ensuing fracas, 9 antifa were hospitalized, most serious among them for stab wounds. During the hour long podcast, hear 3 organizers talk about medic preparation, what the event looked like, media responses, post-confrontation security for those hospitalized and more. It’s well worth noting that money is still being raised to help cover medical costs of those injured on June 26th. To help, you can visit https://rally.org/June26th .

Transcription

TFSR: On June 26th, 2016, about 400 people converged at the Sacramento State Capitol to prevent a fascist, white nationalist rally from taking place. Many individuals and groups, including Sacramento Antifa and Bay Area Antifa, were involved in the effort. The Traditionalist Workers Party (or TWP) and their co-conspirators, the Golden State Skinheads, were not able to hold their rally and were quickly rebuffed each time any of them attempted to take the Capitol steps. They were heavily outnumbered, and resorted to stabbing protesters, as it became clear they could not win by brute force. Unfortunately, nine antifascist protesters required hospitalization, including several who were stabbed. We are here on The Final Straw to discuss the organizing efforts that went into the mobilization against the Traditionalist Workers Party. Thank you Chris, Thomas, and Jay for joining the show. The first question I wanted to ask was, what drew so many people into being a part of of this on June 26th? Collectively what drew some people out? Also, why did you as individuals feel the need to go out there?

Jay: As far as collectively, we were definitely drawn by a need to keep this community safe by this encroaching threat of white supremacists, that are known to be violent and hateful, as well as just a collective outrage that our state institutions would allow these people to come and speak as a platform on the state Capitol. For myself, it really just came from place of realizing that I needed to take a stand against this.

Thomas: Hey, this is Thomas. I agree. Personally, if it comes to my knowledge that there is a white supremacist rally, a neo-Nazi rally in my town, I would love to be a part of the organizing effort to to oppose that, to counter it, whatever that might look like. On that note, I felt like I could bring some experience, because I had been a part of some of the organizing of the counter demonstrations in the past, countering the neo-Nazi rallies on the state Capitol. So I definitely wanted to be able to lend that. Then, as far as my opinion on why so many people responded to the call and what drew so many people there, I feel like there’s something so visceral about being able to face the white supremacists when they’re right in front of you. A lot of stances we take can end up where we’re facing an institution, or we’re facing something that’s more of like a symbol of the oppression. And here it is. Here are the individuals who are a wing of the white supremacist structure, and we can actually face them head on, whatever that may look like. Whether simply just a protest, or a rally, or if it’s something more forceful, or more aggressive than that. Either way, there they are right in front of us, and we can do something about it. So that’s why I think so many people came out. What I brought up earlier is what brought me there.

Chris: This is Chris. There were definitely people who showed up because it was a widespread call that was really well publicized. There was time to do that, just because of the ways that information about the TWP organized rally, had gotten out. Another aspect of that, is that while white supremacy is part of the world that we live in, there was something very particular to the way that this rally was being called and who it was being called by. It really represented a move in the threat from how we’ve really seen neo-Nazis like the GSS work in the past, where it was something that they were collectively doing to target Antifa. It was build as an anti-Antifa rally. So with that, there’s this consolidated threat where you have the intellectual alt-right, people who are really trying to make white nationalism a lot more palatable, alongside these really traditional neo-Nazis who have pretty extensive histories of violence, and those partnering together, changes the kinds of things that we’re up against. Especially seeing this partnership, a lot of people were like, “Oh, no. We can’t with that.” For me, my experience is not with Antifa stuff. It’s with a lot more anarchy stuff that’s happened in the Bay. But it just felt like this is a struggle that goes beyond Antifa or fighting the fascists head on. It’s also about white supremacy and the ground that it’s gaining. I wanted to be there to push against that as much as possible and also support people who are doing direct Antifa stuff in the area.

Jay: I’d like to add that. I definitely agree with what you said about people coming out. I think that a lot of the reason that people came out was because they really had a horse in this race. These white supremacists do pose an actual threat to them, and they feel like they need to respond, because if they don’t, you know what will happen?

TFSR: In a mobilization like this, a lot of people hear about the clashes and the brawl that essentially broke out between anti-racists and TWP supporters. What other kinds of work went into preparing for this? We’ll talk about what happened after and the post-action roles and support for people who got injured, but just in terms of preparation before the event.

Jay: As far as outreach goes, that is definitely something that I helped to organize a little bit. One of the biggest defining factors of outreach is just the varying types of people, the amount of different people that were creating their own flyers, that were sharing their resources, that were really trying to reach out to each and every community that would be affected by these white supremacists, and each and every community that would want to take a stand against them. There was a lot of flyering and postering and canvassing at a huge variety of different events, months leading up to the 26th and definitely a huge base of people trying to spread the word.

Thomas: You touched on the fact that a lot of different groups were participating in making flyers and getting flyers out there but wouldn’t you agree that there was a very communicative, coordinated effort within Northern California to make sure that if an area was already being posted, then another group may head into another area to be postered. Then if these groups in other parts of the West Coast were already in touch, this other group was going to get in touch with groups in a different part of the West Coast. Sooner or later, we realized that everybody from San Diego all the way up to Seattle, knew that we were trying to make this more of a West Coast convergence than just a Northern California convergence on Sacramento.

Jay: Yeah definitely. There was a lot of communication between groups and a lot of awareness of which audiences would be interested and how to best connect them. And definitely just a lot of communication about trying to bring everyone together in unity, in defense.

Thomas: Looking back on the prep, it was actually, really exciting to think about how many people were involved, and how communicative and coordinated people became pretty quickly when working together and making sure there was a lot of promotion. I stepped into the support committee. We wanted to make sure we were covering a bit of ground beforehand, so we could be better prepared if there are arrests or serious injuries on the 26th. So we laid down some groundwork of getting in touch with a couple lawyers ahead of time, getting in touch with the NLG, making sure there was going to be legal observers there that day. We were starting to think of it more in terms of what has happened in some of these anti-Nazi rallies already, just this year. We were thinking back on the one that happened in in Anaheim, California, where two individuals were stabbed by members of the KKK. Traditionally, with these convergences, we’re doing a lot of preparation for possible arrests. Now, with these kinds of situations, it seems like not only do we need to do that, we also need to make sure we’re preparing possibly for serious injuries as well. I mentioned some of the other preparation. We really wanted to make sure we had a good, solid, comprehensive, Know Your Rights flyer that had the legal line, that had other like useful information too. As we mentioned before, a lot of people were responding to the call, a lot of people were responding to postering. We wanted to make sure that everyone got a flyer that would basically go over some sort of dos and don’ts for if you are detained or arrested. I actually feel like we did a pretty good job with a two-sided, full-page flyer. We originally printed out 300, went through those, and fortunately, there was a copy shop close by, so we printed off another 50 and then handed all of those out. It turned out that there was a final count closer to 400. Clearly not everybody got one, but I feel like we did a really good job in making sure that most everyone got one of those flyers. That’s all I’ll mention right now, as far as the support committee goes, and our preparation. I’m pretty excited about what came together and I think there are always things we can learn and do better in the future as well.

Chris: I want to add the communicativeness of this organizing effort. A lot of people have brought in a lot of experience from other events in their areas or other ways of working together that they’ve done. Communication, as far as organizing went, was loose enough to allow for people to make their own decisions about what they were doing, where their strengths were, where they wanted to plug in, what was possible for them and what they would like to be possible in those moments. Just seeing that, especially on that day, how that organizing translated to people working together as a collective but also making individual decisions and individual small group decisions in that moment, in the moments when things were happening, was something I really appreciated. Personally, I was involved with medic prep. Luckily, in the area, we have a long history of medics. Unfortunately, they’ve been needed. For the medic side of things, there was a medics organizing training that was held beforehand. Similar to what you were just saying, we had to plan for a range of experiences. Our experiences from the Bay translated to a situation where we knew there were going to be a ton of police, up to what we all know about Nazis, which is that they stab people. There was a lot of discussion, especially in medics trainings and medic preparation around things like blunt force trauma. In the past, even at rallies that were somewhat similar to this, the police have really held a line. The police have been the aggressors even, in some situations, I’m thinking of things in the Midwest, more than people who are out there as white nationalist skinheads, neo-Nazis, whatever. The cops have really typically been aggressors against the people who are protesting those kinds of demonstrations.

We got information in advance that this was going to be an incredibly heavily policed event, and had to do a lot of preparation, just thinking through blunt force trauma, what supplies we’d need, but had to go as far as thinking about how, in specific situations, are we going to deal with the fact that there may be stab wounds? That involved a lot of planning on pretty short notice, just getting everything together. There was a bunch of supplies and things that needed to be bought. Also a lot of discussions of how as medics we would identify ourselves in that space, because we know from previous things that have happened, especially around Occupy, that medics are really likely to be targeted by the police because they’re people who help keep the people going. So it’s important to think of ways that you’re going to be identifiable to the people you’re with, without that information leaking out to the cops or, in this case, to the Nazis. We did find a way to identify ourselves around that and a way to approach people in the situation where it’s really high tension. That was a lot of the skills that we practiced, anticipating a high tension situation in which we have to run up to people who are already injured without further intimidating them and getting them worked up. We also worked in teams as medics to ensure that people’s safety was upheld so that we could have a lookout while we were doing what we needed to do. That’s medic prep.

Thomas: That just reminded me of when we were talking about the knowledge of a large police presence. Part of my answer to the last question of being a part of some of the organizing efforts against Nazi rallies at the Capitol, and being able to borrow from that experience from the past. At the same time, you can only do that so much. You can only take from past experiences, so much. Then from that, you also need to try and prepare for worst case scenarios, envision what that could look like, and try to do your best and prepare for that. Again, I think we all did a really great job, but I think we can also probably learn a lot for the future, during times of reflection as well.

TFSR: The media was really quick to demonize anti-racist, counter protesters who took part in the action. I was wondering what y’all think about this. What does this demonization point to? What is it that they’re trying to whitewash and why do you think it is that they’re doing that?

Chris: This is something we’ve been talking about a lot. I’m just going to run through some main points from conversations that we’ve been having about this. Then if you all want to throw in after that, that’s perfect. One of the first things that comes up with this is that the media response could be viewed as this direct counter and desire to control the narrative of all of these visibly black and brown people who were there on June 26th. Just to erase all of these multiple generations that were present and that people from a variety of political perspectives came together to address a real and ongoing threat. This is something that directly will affect people, individually and collectively as we’re moving forward. On top of that, the demonization of people against the planned Nazi demonstration is super racialized and allows the media to maintain this dominant narrative of power that totally fits with white supremacy. In the past, the media has consistently taken power from militant revolutionary acts and movements among POC folks. If you add to that, this narrative that we’ve seen in the media of it being uncivilized people who attacked the Nazis, which also suggests that the Nazis were the civilized party in what happened on June 26th.

That narrative of being uncivilized, that’s straight from the eugenics movement, and it’s being used in all of these liberal circles to talk about the violent people who were against the Nazis, rather than the Nazis as violent. It’s a deeply racialized thing that’s happening and a deeply racist thing. We’ve seen that too, the liberal narratives of non-violence on social media that are being passed around, the calls for peace, which we see. Now we can say this, because it’s been a little while, in the wake of Dallas too. We see that’s not only something that happened post-Sacramento, but is a narrative that will be called for over and over and that we’re going to need to be able to respond to. It just really seems like that narrative of calls for peace is kind of bolstering and making room for this emboldened narrative of white nationalism and white supremacy. That’s not always the case. That’s not always what we’re seeing. In fact, some of the media outlets right after June 26th really tried to provide platforms to the TWP and to broadcast their views, even though it was obvious in the news, especially local news in Sacramento, that multiple people had been stabbed by Nazis that were affiliated with the TWP. There’s one reporter in particular that I will try not to call out too hard. On top of that, the media was super slow to even admit that there were white nationalists that had been present on the Capitol and they used a lot of air quotes or a lot of print quotes, so it was like, “alleged white supremacist”, “alleged Nazis.” As I was following a bunch of this media stuff, for a lot of reasons, that started to shift. It didn’t shift because of the fact that there were visible f%$@in Nazis, in visible f#$%@@ Nazi regalia.

Jay: They were literally sieg heiling on the steps.

Chris: You can see a photo of them doing that. It is out there. The media was using it. Instead, it changed because Southern Poverty Law Center had listed TWP as a white supremacist group. So we saw the newspapers starting to incorporate these Southern Poverty Law Center statements, like you need an official body to tell you somebody’s a Nazi when you can look at them and they’re an obvious Nazi. So then we saw that narrative shift. I want to say there are times in the media where that never really happened, where there weren’t these alleged quotes going on, but it was really apparent in reporting directly following the event, especially in Sacramento News. That’s an area where we know, because they were there, that there are neo-Nazis. On top of that, something we have to acknowledge in talking about June 26th is, there’s been, especially over the last few years, all of this stuff coming out about the alt-right, and the re-branding of the Nazis. That’s one of the big things that TWP is about, that it’s platforms are about. It’s this deep psychic warfare. For the media to whitewash what is happening, to use these air quotes, these print quotes around what it was, and for them to give platforms to white nationalists, until, thankfully, Twitter shut them down. The Heimbach interview didn’t air, right?

Jay: It was taken down.

Chris: That’s part of the normalization of blatant racism. That’s what I’d say that we’re seeing. It really supports this idea that the intellectualism turn among the alt-right is going to be successful in gaining more and more people to those positions, which is scary. One last thing I’ll say about this, is that this media response and some of the other responses have also completely ignored or disregarded the fact that when this was originally called by white nationalists, this rally that they were having on the Capitol, it was an anti-Antifa demo. Instead, they’ve claimed that the white nationalist organized around their right to free speech, which was just not the case. If you go back and look at the ways that they were billing it, it was all anti-Antifa. We had discussions like, “Is this a trap? Are we being baited?” for a while before, as organization was taking place. What this is indicative of is the fact that they can just do an anti-Antifa call out, and the media doesn’t even ^%$@ pick that up. Sorry if you don’t like curses. Apparently, in this moment that we are in, white nationalists don’t even need a reason, a justification for the fact that they want to rally, to come together, to make a physical presence, and can openly make threats without that ever being addressed or acknowledged. So that’s my big deal.

Thomas: Thanks so much for adding that. I’m just gonna continue with two more thoughts, especially piggybacking on the last thing you said. There was a neo-Nazi rally in 2012 and there was a neo-Nazi rally in 2013. They seem to feel like they needed much more of a reason to have a rally, instead of just “We are white supremacist, and that will be our platform.” Whereas in 2012, they were suggesting that there is a white genocide in South Africa. They were the South Africa project. That’s what their signage said, that’s what their banner said, and that’s what they were talking about on the megaphone. Then in 2013, it was much more simply an anti-immigration rally. Again, that’s what their signage and banners were talking about and that’s definitely what they were talking about over the megaphone. Now it seems like we are living in a much different climate, where groups like the KKK are going to rally in Anaheim and then these neo-Nazis are going to organize in Sac and don’t seem to need a front. They seem like they’re going to get the backing from more legitimate sort of structures, to be able to position themselves. I would say real quick, the mainstream outlets represent the white supremacist structure, so it benefits them to whitewash it, especially when you think about 400 people charging through the Capitol, making sure that these white supremacists do not have a voice, and don’t have a platform. What does that represent? Those 400 people represent a threat to that white supremacist structure. If the these mainstream media outlets are benefiting from the that structure, then all of a sudden there’s a real threat to it. If there’s 400 people who are very serious about about making sure these white supremacists are going to be denied that. One more thing I want to add is, I’m just going to go ahead and use this opportunity to say that I appreciate outlets like this, The Final Straw. You are important in giving us the correct avenue to take in getting these ideas out there. Thank you.

TFSR:Many people will say things like, “Oh, going after the Klan or going after neo-Nazis is bottom of the barrel activity.” Like, it’s really easy to think that these people are bad and for us to organize around them, but maybe it’s not what we should prioritize. I like to know how y’all would respond to this sort of criticism.

Jay: First of all, it definitely is not very hard to mobilize people against neo-Nazis. The reason for that is very clearly that neo-Nazis represent a form of extremism that is very dangerous and destructive to society. A lot of people, fortunately, do understand that. The idea that something being so easy to mobilize makes it bottom of the barrel activity in and of itself, is a big misconception. A lot of the time, what that really can mean is that it’s easy to mobilize these people because the thing that we’re against is really just that bad. There’s also a misconception of white supremacy and white nationalism as separate from, rather than a key part of other systems of oppression. There’s this idea that white nationalism and white supremacy are these crazy extremes that you don’t often see, when really it lives among us each and every day. It’s really important for us to be able to identify that and really realize where that stems from. Responding to the fact that maybe people don’t think that this is a worthy cause, that invalidates the very real fact that these people are dangerous and they’re willing to do extreme things for these disgusting beliefs that they have. These white supremacists were fully willing to come out to the Capitol fully armed, and to stab members of a protest in front of police and then just walk away. These people are definitely not something that we can take lightly. We need to take them very seriously, because they do pose a serious threat. The people that they pose a serious threat to are often minorities and people that already find themselves to be targets and already find themselves to be vulnerable. So I think that makes it doubly important that we take it as a serious threat. There needs to be protection for these people that are targets.

Thomas: I’ll just add real quick. I’m a little confused as what the alternative would be. Try to ignore them? As Jay pointed out, these are individuals who have clearly announced themselves as individuals who who will carry out these threats, and they’ll do it in the face of protesting, or they’ll do it on their own. We need to show them that there is a large number of people who are not going to stand for it anymore.

Chris: Also, there’s an element to people saying this that doesn’t really recognize (like we saw on June 26th) how many black and brown and other POC folks were there, standing up for their lives, and how many trans and queer people were there standing up for their lives in the face of people who wanted them dead. Just overall, to make that insignificant to me, is actually just really dangerous. It’s a really dangerous conversation for us to engage in because it doesn’t recognize the lived realities of people who are involved in fights against white nationalism, individually and collectively. That and also people that are exposed to white nationalism, and maybe aren’t seeking out to oppose it. These white nationalists and these white supremacists, they still will target these people simply because of who they are.

TFSR: After the melee, there were essentially nine people who were fairly seriously injured, including people who were stabbed by the Nazis. There have been maybe a couple people out there who made statements that perhaps the mobilization wasn’t worth it because so many people were injured. I’d like to hear from y’all, how you would respond to that sort of claim?

Thomas: Making a statement like that is actually disrespectful to those who were injured. It’s denying the idea that there are individuals out there who are willing to put their lives on the line, put their safety, put their freedom on the line. Mass mobilizations happen. Protesting, demos happen all the time. People understand that they’re risking arrest, risking injury, and it’s because what they’re standing up for is just that important. We have a lot of reasons to believe that specific individuals were attacked, and want to recognize the agency and positions of those who were directly attacked by Nazis. These were largely black men and trans women, people who have the most to lose in their day-to-day lives, and showed courage and knowledge of the situation. There will always potentially be injuries. Like I was saying before, we know what we’re up against. When we think about this in a large scale way, when we’re opposing oppression, or when we’re talking about these specific individual protests or convergences, focusing on the perceived inadequacies of those present at June 26th focuses the lens away from the fact that it was the Nazis who caused this harm, directly and with intent. That’s really important to make note of, and it’s important also to think about the climate that we’re in right now.

This isn’t the first time that Nazis have have attacked individuals engaged in anti-racist, anti-Nazi protesting. Just within the last 24 months, or even a shorter time span than that, right in Sacramento, about two months earlier than the June 26th convergence, there were hundreds of flyers found in the midtown area of Sacramento. The language within the flyer was stating that it’s time for Muslim individuals and Latino individuals to be disposed of. That’s disgusting, and it’s awful to hear, but it’s what the flyers said. They even went as far to say you, the reader of the flyer, should be finding a dump site for these individuals. So that’s the climate we’re living in. So when we know what we’re up against, and we’re still willing to to stand firm and take those risks, I think it’s disrespectful to those who were injured and hospitalized. We’ll probably end up talking about this a little later but if it wasn’t for some of the medics on site, some of those individuals would have died. It’s a reality. Even those who, once they got to the hospital, were really fighting for their lives. It’s important to recognize that people are going to make sacrifices. It’s just that important to all of us who engage in struggle for a better society, or for a new society.

Chris: From the side of the medics, I’ll tack on that we’re thinking through these things as situations where injuries might happen, where people need to be able to make their decisions. Part of why the medics are there is to treat any injuries that happen, but also to provide reassurance that people are going to receive care for the risks that they want to take and the decisions that they make. That’s why I think things like medic and legal are such essential parts of organizing any kind of event like this.

Jay: I definitely agree with that sentiment. There are always ways that we can learn from events like this and do better next time, as far as keeping people as safe as possible and minimizing risks of these type of things. But when it really comes down to it, we are up against a violent opposing force that has it in their mind to do whatever it takes, basically to get their way.

TFSR: In this hour, we’re hearing from antifascist organizers involved in the June 26th resistance to the TWP and GSS, among other white nationalist groups. On that day, the racists attempted to rally at the California State Capitol steps in Sacramento. Here’s more of Chris, Thomas and Jay as they speak about the alt-right media coverage of the fighting on June 26th, street medic and other prepping before the fact and keeping safer while bashing the fash. For information on how to support those injured at resisting the racists, check out sacprisonersupport.wordpress.com and search anti-Nazi.

In terms of people who were injured on June 26th, can you all talk a little bit about the support those folks are receiving?

Chris: The thing I’d like to put forward first, is that the organizational structures that we already discussed that went into planning June 26th, really supported and provided a backbone for the ongoing post mobilization efforts, as far as staying networked with the groups of people who knew people who were injured, keeping lawyers in touch with people who needed them, and doing general care. Some of that stuff’s going to come up in a minute. Something about this mobilization that I thought about a lot is how much communication really set the ground work for this not being something that we all walked into, although I don’t think we could have anyway, and walked away from after it was done.

Thomas: Yeah, I agree completely with that. It wasn’t just “Okay, now it’s going to be the focus of the support committee to support those who are now in the hospital.” Maybe the support committee is doing a lot of the coordination around that but there were people coming from different directions, who were a part of the original organizing effort, plugging in periodically and playing a huge part in moving that support effort along, post mobilization. Like I was talking about before, when planning these types of things, you never know exactly how many arrests there will be, how many injuries there will be, or if there will be any. Once the dust started to settle Sunday afternoon, June 26th, it was, “Well, actually, there’s nobody in jail, but there’s nine people who are at some hospital in the Sacramento area. We need to figure out who they are and what hospitals they’re at”. That took some effort, but that was a priority for those of us who are sort of coordinating that, and then by those others who are supporting that. I’ll just sort of honestly jump ahead to once we were there at the hospital, making sure we were providing emotional support, legal support and then, overall solidarity with the individuals who were attacked on June 26th. We wanted to make sure we got to visit each one of the patients as quickly as possible, so we could let them know that there were lawyers who had already volunteered themselves to be their lawyer, at least in this very beginning stage. So when, when the cops would come and visit them, they could then go ahead and turn them away by stating their right to remain silent and then direct any questions that the cops would have to their lawyer. We would make sure that we knew that they had the phone number and the full name of the lawyer. In fact, most of the hospital rooms had these dry erase boards where we could actually write the name of the lawyer and then the phone number on it. Because a lot of the patients were becoming sedated or just not in their best condition, we would actually even then write on a piece of paper. We would literally spell it out “I’m going to exercise my right to remain silent. Any questions you have should be directed to my lawyer”. Then they can even just point at that dry erase board. That was really important to us.

The other thing was important to us was to actually respect the institution of the hospital and to know that we were always running the risk of being kicked out of there, if our support group ever grew to a large enough number, or if we just didn’t respect their rules enough, or their policies enough. Even if certain situations came about that we need to address right away. We need to understand that there are parameters that we need to sort of fit in to be able to do what’s needed in order to show these individual support. Within those parameters, certain things would pop up. For example, right away we found out that one of the patients, about a few days into their hospital stint, was being–I don’t know if “care” is the right word in the situation, but was, but for lack of better term) cared for by a Nazi sympathizer nurse. We could have all marched up there and bark demands, but where would that have gotten us? We collected ourselves in the lobby and figured out the best way to handle it. Sure enough, we were able to get that nurse reassigned. So that’s just one example, and there’s a lot of other examples. Eventually, we became privy that neo-Nazis online were making threats to the patients, and basically saying, along with many other things, that they were going to “finish the job.” At that point, we realized that we needed to make sure that there were individuals with the patients as much as possible. We also realized that we needed to start offering an escort when the patients were being released from the hospital. We were realistic with it. We realized what we could handle in the situation, but we also realized that we needed to be able to offer something. So we wanted to offer an escort of as of many people as that person was comfortable with. It usually looked like five to seven, sometimes even eight people walking out with this person to their ride. Each time a patient was being discharged from the hospital, we offered that and then always fulfilled when it was met with an interest in that.

I’ll just go a little further with that and say it has also been brought to our attention that not only the patients, or the injured have been targets of Nazis, post-June 26th. What seems to be going on is anyone that the Nazis can get a clear picture of from the protest, that’s now another person of interest that they’re going to start targeting as well. We have been taking those threats seriously and have been moving forward with a support base and plans of action to support those individuals who find out that they are now being targeted by the Nazis. Through all that, there was still conversations with the lawyers who had volunteered themselves. There was also further conversations with other lawyers who may be willing to take a case if and when charges are are brought on anyone on the antifascist side of things. That kind of wraps it up pretty well. There was also a push for fundraising and there still is. We are really thankful for all the different fundraising benefits that have popped up all over North America, and the crowdfunding site that the support committee set up beforehand. That’s still going on right now. We will definitely plug later. There’s been donations to that crowdfunding site from all over the world, and that also helps in the post-mobilization effort. With something as incredible as June 26th, and I say incredible on a lot of different levels, we need a lot of individuals. We need a lot of support to join us in, supporting the injured, supporting those who are being targeted, and to take the fundraising seriously, because there are nine we are fundraising for. That’s pretty much all I have.

Jay: I would just like to add on the basis of support that a lot of people have received. What I have found especially empowering was just the amount of people doing hospital support that were coming from out of town, the amount of letters that were pouring in. Just people really wanting to make it clear that they had the best wishes for these people who were recovering, as well as the fact that we’ve received so many donations from all over the world, and just people really taking a stand and stepping up to help in the aftermath. Just as we were talking about earlier, showing up at the 26th and then that being done, there was definitely a lot of support from a large crowd afterwards as well.

TFSR:In thinking about the future, given that this is probably not the last time that people will have to confront white nationalists and fascists, can you guys talk about some of the lessons you all have learned and some of the reflections that you’ve had moving forward?

Chris: I want to start this off by saying (we’ve kind of brought this up multiple times through this) what happened on June 26th wasn’t the part of an umbrella organization. The event was planned with room for a lot of agency and autonomy. What occurred there was a drive from a bunch of individuals who were acting collectively. We want to be really cautious in how we think through that critically, in making sure that we recognize the choices and decisions that people made. So that said, we can offer some applied information from stuff. Tactical stuff: Use good wood. Self-defense: You might need it. From medics, we’d say consider medics as a part of tactical. Make sure that medical supplies are funded. Specifically in instances where you can anticipate that stabbings might occur, bring quick clot or trauma packs if you can get them. Those are really, really important in those kinds of situations. Be prepared for wide level calls like this, that went around, that were so heavily advertised that we’re pulling up and down the West Coast to bring new faces and find ways to keep those new to the struggle informed. It’d be extremely useful, moving ahead, and there are a bunch of different variations of this. If this is going to be the situation we keep encountering, to have a one page, distributed resource with basic information on legal, medical and tactical info, just like “Here’s a legal number and why you need it.” One sentence, bullet point down a list. Because sometimes, if you’re at an event and the tension is high, like it was on June 26th early on, even when you get a resource, how can you pay attention? When oh my gosh, whatever is about to happen is going to happen.

Another thing I’d say, in regard to faces, new and old, but especially new faces, is to remember that they might also want to be covered and bring additional masks. I feel like that’s a really simple step that anybody who’s wearing a mask can do. If you’re wearing a mask, bring an extra mask in case somebody needs it. Then we’ll just material needs, which is what a lot of the fundraiser is about. Material needs were anticipated in relation to this event coming up. There was a fundraiser that was set up even before the event happened, that is continuing to be the fundraiser now. The severity of injuries and the number of those injured by the Nazis was not able to be met by these initial fundraising needs. A lot of that fundraiser was set up as a precaution at that time…

Thoma: … instead of foundation to sort of build from. Now we’re building from that foundation that was set up and from that sort of preemptive planning.

Chris: As we move forward in this struggle and in other similar struggles, we’re going to have to continue to consider ways to gain material support so we can respond to threats and confrontations. That’s something that I’m hoping that collectively we’re going to be discussing here, that I think people should really be discussing in other places. We’re seeing, not only violence, but rises in arrest rates and all of these other consequences that are coming down as people are engaging in really intense struggle throughout the nation and throughout the world. That said, there’s a lot of ways to continue to support those from June 26th and a lot of those are on It’s Going Down. What I really like about the stuff that’s gone up on It’s Going Down is that it includes stuff about the basic fundraiser, but also other ways to show material support, like dropping a banner, sending a card, whatever. And I feel like that’s that’s so much more than just being like “we need money” even though sometimes we need money, I guess, which sucks.

Thomas: Those injured, also, not only need money, but obviously benefit from knowing that there are people, not just in Northern California, but people all over the world that appreciate that sacrifice they made. They want to show that support, that solidarity in ways, in addition to just money. I think cards and letters that have been received are a great sign of that.

Jay: Definitely. As far as thinking about success goes, I would just like to add that I think that there are numerous ways to conceptualize success or the positives of the situation, but many of these may be reductive. That said, the goal set for the day was held. We did prevent the white supremacists from having a space to have a rally at the Capitol. Moving forward, I’d say the strengths and foundations of relationships, before, during and after this action, do mean that we have that broader means of communication and that broader amount of people to really draw from in circumstances like this. That also gives us the ability to share knowledge and the possibility of once again just working together in the future. The Nazis will spin the narrative of whatever happened, in any way that they can to make them sound successful. That’s really indicative of their weakness, if they have to spin it all of these different ways just to feel like they did something. Really they were pushed off with with great success.

Thomas: To add real quick on to something that Chris was saying earlier about more medical supplies, better medical supplies, better wood and then committing yourself to self-defense training. There seems to be no reason to be cheap in these kind of situations. You might as might spend the money that is needed on the best supplies possible.

Jay: Especially when it is a situation of people getting seriously injured and killed, if we don’t have good enough supplies. I’m definitely in agreement with that.

TFSR: All right, so I’d like to extend my thanks to Chris, Thomas and Jay for doing this interview. It was super informative. If you all have any closing thoughts, shout outs, maybe let people know how they can help.

Chris: I want to jump off from where Jay ended that last question. I think this is just an aspect of what happened on June 26th that I’ve been thinking about a lot and how to put it in a larger context. What does it mean if we can only present ourselves as strong? Or for the white nationalists, what does means if they can only present themselves as strong? This is just some of the stuff I’ve been thinking about, especially in relation to the huge amounts of care work and support that have gone into organizing, implementing and post-mobilization stuff. I personally believe in our weakness as much as our strength, and I think this is true for a lot of us. Shows of force like this have a tendency to easily slip into this narrative of a deep masculinization, of the battle being brute force against brute force. To look at our own weaknesses- to think about things in larger context, to connect the antifa struggle with other forms of resistance against capitalism, patriarchy, white supremacy and state power- is one of the ways that we look at what it is actually that we are up against. To look at that, to recognize our weakness and the things that could be courage in the face of that, is really important. A lot of what the TWP talks about is this idea of, I guess, the way that we’d say it is white male fragility and white male vulnerability. That only happens because of their narrative of white males losing their strength, losing their social strength in all of this. Us claiming our weakness is something that’s really powerful.

What’s powerful in us–through what happened on June 26th and through our joining struggles–is not only that these risks are going to be taken and that we’re going to show up and do what we can to physically keep white nationalism from gaining more and more footing, but also is in our ability to hold one another and to show care. It’s to follow up with one another, all of the work that’s been done to try to make sure that nobody is getting left behind, and to recognize that what we’re walking away from, the kinds of wounds we have from June 26th, are psychic as well as physical. So all of this is in short, to acknowledge that we’re not the strong against the strong, but the caring against the devious. We’ll need care and we should give care.That’s a point where we can see a lot of overlap between this specific struggle and this specific instance and a lot of other struggles that are happening right now.

Jay: Thanks, Chris. Yeah, I think as far as what I would like to add, we haven’t really had much of a chance to talk about the police response on the 26th. I think that definitely merits going over. The police response was definitely radically different from what we’ve seen in previous demonstrations by neo-Nazis and white supremacists at the Capitol. In previous demonstrations, police have had strong lines, and they have kept the protesters and the white supremacists separated. There definitely has been heavy policing in that regard. As far as the 26th went this year, it went completely differently. There was a very strong police presence, and there were a lot of police around the Capitol. This police presence was definitely fully armed with automatic rifles, tear gas, pepper spray, all of the usual things that you normally see police carrying at protests. However, the police let the white nationalists and white supremacist TWP members basically confront the protesters armed with knives, sticks and shields. That’s really something that we need to be aware of. We cannot rely on the police to protect us from these white supremacists. Even after white supremacists had stabbed protesters on Capitol grounds, police were protecting individual white supremacists, bringing them onto the grounds and allowing them to do things like sieg heil on the Capitol. There was absolutely no response to try to stop these stabbings or to find the people afterward as they were running away. There was just no response. They were basically just watching as it happened. So I think it’s really important for us to just be aware that as far as police goes, their motivations do not lie in protecting the people when they feel this white supremacist threat. Their motivations lie in allowing the people to be attacked and then waiting to let them be incriminated.

Thomas: I just want to add real quick that I’ve seen a lot of like relationships that have been developed through solidarity after June 26th. From the coordinated, organizing effort to make June 26th happen, or relationships between the organizers and the injured, or those who have reached out from other parts of the country or other parts of the world to wonder how they can help out. Different communication relationships that have developed through there. That’s clearly only going to benefit the overall struggle against fascism, if we maintain those relationships and move forward with with continuing those relationships. So I really see a huge possibility in those firming up and continuing as we move forward. The only other thing I wanted to add was that, there’s already been a lot of media around this through radical sources, anarchist media sources. As Chris mentioned earlier, there’s been a lot of great articles on itsgoingdown.org. There was also a great interview on the on submedia.tv in the show called Plague of Nationalism. Then there’s an interview coming up pretty soon on the Crimethinc podcast. I also just wanted to add real quick (I know Chris brought this up earlier) the letters and cards can keep coming. I’ll just plug the PO Box one more time. Sacramento Prisoner Support has offered their PO box. So that’s Sacramento Prisoner Support, PO Box. 163126, Sacramento, California, 95816. We’ll definitely make sure that those cards get to whoever that they’re addressed to.

Chris: Thanks everybody for listening. It means a lot that you care and are paying attention, especially as we know we’ll be in this together as we move ahead.

TFSR: Thanks to the West Coast affiliates of The Final Straw for this interview, and a huge thanks to those taking the streets to fight back the waves of reaction.

Share this post: